Camela Thompson, Go-To-Market Thought Leader and B2B Insights Expert, is interviewed by Doug Bell, Fractional CMO & Partner at Chief Outsiders, in this episode of the Revenue Marketing Report. Camela shares why so many marketers struggle with reporting and it has everything to do with their CRM.
Hello and welcome to the Revenue Marketing Report, powered by CaliberMind. I'm Doug Bell, your guest host today, and joining me is the usual host, and today’s guest, Camela Thompson. Hi, Camela.
“Hi Doug! This is a bit unusual, but I’m excited to be on the other side of the mic today.”
Yes, it’s definitely a role reversal, but I think we’re in for a great conversation. Today, we’re diving into something that I know is close to your heart—how CRMs, which are supposed to help, can actually sabotage B2B marketing efforts.
You recently had an epiphany about this. Tell us about that.
“Absolutely. The epiphany hit me when I realized that the way different teams view and use CRMs is fundamentally misaligned. Marketing, sales, and CRM administrators all approach the system from different angles, and this lack of alignment creates more problems than it solves. What I found is that CRM admins, often embedded in sales, focus on sales needs, while marketing automation admins, usually on the marketing side, prioritize marketing’s objectives. But there’s often a significant gap between these priorities, and that’s where the trouble begins.”
That makes sense. So, it’s really about how different teams see CRM differently, right? Can you give us an example of how this disconnect shows up in everyday marketing?
“One of the most common examples I see is with campaign data, especially in systems like Salesforce and HubSpot. Marketing leaders are under pressure to justify their digital advertising spend, so they track every single touchpoint—every ad click, every form fill—by creating a separate campaign in the CRM for each one. While this might seem logical from a marketing perspective, it creates a mess for sales. When sales looks at campaign influence, they’re only seeing one layer of data, which often isn’t the most useful or actionable layer. This disconnect leads to frustration on both sides.”
So, it’s really about the way data is layered in the CRM, and how that complicates things for everyone. You mentioned that CRM admins and marketing automation admins don’t always communicate well—how does this contribute to the problem?
“The core issue is that these admins are focused on their specific team’s needs without fully understanding what the other side needs. For example, marketing cares about every touchpoint, while sales just wants to know the most important actions that indicate a lead is ready to convert. The CRM is often structured in a way that supports sales at the expense of marketing’s needs, or vice versa, and that’s where the misalignment happens. It’s a problem of priorities not being aligned and a lack of cross-pollination of ideas between teams.”
And how does this impact reporting? Because I know that’s a big pain point for a lot of marketing teams.
“It makes reporting a nightmare. When you have multiple campaigns for every touchpoint, it becomes nearly impossible to get a clear picture of what’s actually driving conversions. Sales might see one campaign as the most influential, while marketing is looking at a completely different set of data. This leads to confusion and frustration when trying to report on ROI or justify budget spend to the executive team.”
That’s a huge issue, especially when executives are looking for clear ROI metrics. How should marketing leaders think about structuring campaigns in their CRM to avoid this problem?
“Great question. One of the key things I recommend is flattening the data structure in the CRM. Instead of creating a hierarchical parent-child relationship for campaigns, which might look nice but complicates reporting, use custom fields to capture essential data points within a single record. For example, rather than creating separate campaigns for each ad click or form fill, focus on the action or CTA you’re driving, and use custom fields to track the details like UTM parameters. This flat structure simplifies reporting and makes it easier for sales to see what they need to act on.”
So, instead of having a complex hierarchy, you’re advocating for a more streamlined, flat structure where everything relevant is on a single record. That sounds logical, but I imagine it’s quite a shift from how many teams currently operate. Can you give us an example of how marketers typically structure campaigns and how that could be improved?
“Sure. A typical setup I see is something like this: You have a parent campaign for a region, then a child campaign for an initiative, and another for the audience. This hierarchy might go down three or four levels before you get to the actual campaign that tracks the asset or action, like an ebook download or webinar registration. The problem with this approach is that CRM reporting tools can only summarize data one level deep, which means all those parent campaigns don’t actually contribute much to the reporting you need for campaign influence.”
That’s a lot of layers. So, what’s the alternative?
“The alternative is to create a single campaign for the asset or CTA, then use dropdown picklists for things like region, initiative, and audience. This keeps all the important information on one record, making it easier to pull into reports and giving sales a clearer picture of what actions to follow up on. Then, you push down UTM parameters to the campaign member level, so you can still track the journey without overcomplicating the campaign structure.”
That’s a radical shift, but it makes a lot of sense. You’re essentially saying that campaigns should represent the asset or action, not every single touchpoint along the way. How does this approach benefit sales teams?
“It benefits sales because it gives them exactly what they need to know to close deals—what the lead did and what they’re interested in. Sales doesn’t care about every ad click; they care about meaningful actions like attending a webinar or downloading a key asset. By flattening the data structure, you’re making it easier for them to see these actions and act on them.”
And what about the leadership team? How does this approach help them?
“For leadership, it’s all about ROI. They want to know how much money is being spent on each channel and what the return is. By simplifying the data structure and focusing on high-value actions, you can provide clearer, more accurate reports that tie campaign data directly to revenue outcomes. This makes it easier to justify marketing spend and secure budget for future initiatives.”
It sounds like this approach could really streamline reporting and make it more impactful.
What about marketing operations teams? How should they be thinking about campaign data in their CRM?
“Marketing ops should focus on making the CRM work for both sales and marketing. This means setting up campaigns in a way that highlights the most important actions for sales, while still capturing all the data marketing needs for analysis. It’s about finding that balance—making sure sales has the actionable insights they need, without overwhelming them with too much data, and ensuring that marketing can still track the full customer journey.”
You mentioned earlier that this approach involves pushing UTM parameters down to the campaign member level. Can you explain why that’s important?
“Absolutely. When you push UTM parameters down to the campaign member level, you’re capturing all the details about how a lead got to the action without cluttering up the campaign itself. This allows you to track the journey in detail while keeping the campaign structure clean and focused on the most important actions. It’s like having your cake and eating it too—you get all the data you need without overcomplicating the CRM.”
That’s a really smart approach. So, to sum up, you’re advocating for a flat, streamlined campaign structure that focuses on the most important actions, with all the additional details captured at the campaign member level. This benefits sales by giving them actionable insights and helps leadership by providing clearer ROI metrics. It’s a win-win.
“Exactly. It’s about making the CRM work for the business, not against it. By simplifying the data structure and focusing on high-value actions, we can make sure everyone—sales, marketing, and leadership—gets what they need from the CRM.”
This has been incredibly insightful, Camela. Before we wrap up, do you have any final advice for listeners who are struggling with their CRM setup?
“My advice is to take a step back and really think about what each team needs from the CRM. Don’t be afraid to challenge the way things have always been done and look for ways to simplify and streamline. And remember, it’s impossible for CRM administrators to know everything, so be patient and work with them to find solutions that work for everyone.”
Great advice. Camela, thank you so much for sharing your insights today. This was a fantastic conversation, and I’m sure our listeners will find it incredibly valuable.
“Thank you, Doug. It was a pleasure being on the other side of the mic for a change. And to our listeners, thank you for tuning into the Revenue Marketing Report. Please subscribe and check out more great content at calibermind.com.”
For the complete guide to Campaign Setup for SFDC Admins, visit: https://calibermind.com/playbooks/a-salesforce-administrators-guide-to-campaign-setup/
For more content on B2B marketing trends, listen to the full Revenue Marketing Report episode at the top of the article or anywhere you podcast.
